+ making music magazine interview +

THOMAS DOLBY

march 1994

interview by Steve Wright

Does embracing new technology make you less musical? To test the theory, it seemed sensible to ask Thomas Dolby (a notorious technology embracer if there ever was one) whether he still considered himself a musician. Reassuringly, he answered that yes, he did. Then, less reassuringly, he went on to say that he didn't know what his instrument was. But if Thomas Dolby's not a keyboard player what hope is there for those learning to play keyboards? All those kids having piano lessons - are they wasting their time? Have new skills become more important?

"Being able to play piano is like being able to touch type - I often wish I'd learned to touch type, because I do a lot of typing these days. I think the piano playing skill is very important from that point of view. The new skill is the ability to learn a new piece of software or hardware to the point where you can use it creatively and get gratification from it."

 

 

Thomas Dolby Robertson

1994

 

What about synthesis? Another dying skill?

"I don't twiddle knobs very much anymore, except on older keyboards where every function has a knob or a slider. I was doing a recording this week with a Roland Jupiter 8, and I hadn't played it for seven years, but when I called up a sound and it wasn't quite right, without even looking for it my hand went to the right fader to adjust the release. I knew exactly where the LFO was and I remembered how to use the combination of LFO depth and delay and so on, to get the sound exactly right. I've got a rack of newer synth modules, and if I'm away from one of them for a week I forget which page I have to flip through to for the parameter that I want to change. That really has discouraged me from learning one of those modules inside out to the point where I can build sounds from scratch with it. But with many of these new modules, often the raw pure quality of the sound is not really there."

Even as we spoke, however, a new type of synthesiser was about to be released. Yamaha's ground-breaking VL-1Virtual Accoustic synth is a keyboard without oscillators, waveforms or samples. It used "physical modelling" - a technique which computes sound in real time, using the same audio principles that occur in accoustic instruments. Of course, Thomas has already tried it.

"Although it was limited in what it could do - saxes, oboes, flutes, ethnic wind instruments and things like that - the raw quality of the sound was excellent. As long as you hold down a note there's always something happening - not just in terms of a filter sweep or something like that, but like a real instrument it's constantly in a state of flux. With a sample you either have a loop or you have a longer sample where every note you play does more or less the same thing. But I was using a breath controller, and playing saxes and flute sounds. It allows me to live out that fantasy of going out on a fire escape in a New York alleyway and blowing some cool blues sax.

"I think they're really onto something - it does sound substantially different and it really is playable in an exciting way. What Yamaha seem to have done is start out with a very high end product which is out of reach of most people at first, but over a period of time will filter down."

 

 
 

QWERTY-SOMETHING

"If your instrument is a computer, it's very hard to express yourself in real time. It's wonderful what you can do with a computer, but it's very anti-social, so it takes away that essence of spontaneity and of interaction with other musicians. How many times have you seen a programmer say, 'Ah, watch this', and for ten minutes he's in his own space and his own time. Finally he'll sit back and he'll hit play and there it is - it's incredible what he's done, but during that time he was off in another universe. I think one of the reasons for that is the interface we're using - a computer - was designed for doing spreadsheets and databases and so on. A querty and mouse is really a very feeble interface given that what we're dealing with is orchestras, drums, vocals - it doesn't have the sort of tactile feedback you'd get from a Stradivarius or a Steinway - or a Gibson."

Which is where virtual reality instruments come in?

"I've been working more and more in VR. My first program was debuted at the Guggenheim museum in October and November. That was based on a Mozart string quartet - you put on a helmet and you were able to wander around a string quartet of four graphically generated musicians, and as you did so, not only the visual point of view but also the aural perspective was calculated in real time. Put your head next to the viola and that's what you'd hear. It was calculating the direction that the sound source was coming from, and it was mixing between them. It was also calculating reflections around the room and spatialising them in real time.

"The point of it was to show a couple of things - number one, that VR is not for spotty teenage arcade game players, but that older people could enjoy it - my great aunt Rita came down, she's 83 - she was listening to a piece of Mozart that she knew and she was tapping her feet and she was really into it. The other thing was to show that even though the graphics in VR are still not great, there's absolutely no reason to apologise for the audio, because we can do CD quality audio in real time right now and it's relatively cheap and affordable - I was getting the sound off the hard drives with two Gravis computer game sound cards which are under $200 each, and doing eight tracks of CD quality audio. But after I started to get into programming for this environment, I came back to my Mac and started working on my album, and I realised that I'm very much at the mercy of Opcode and Digidesign and a couple of others.

"I lie in bed awake at night dreaming this music that's in big bold strokes - tempo changes, instrumental changes and so on. And then in the morning I get in and go, 'Right, where do I start... well... um... a kick drum... er... which one?... er, what tempo? Should it be looping? How many bars? Wait... I'd better save this quick... now, what folder did I want to save this in?' And at the end of all that, all you've got is a kick drum which doesn't like to have its tempo changed. The computer forces me into its way of thinking about things, and because using the machine you can massage things until they sound good, before very long it starts to sound like a record, and I go 'Great, that's done then', but it bears no resemblance whatsoever to the music that I lay in bed thinking about the night before.

"So I thought, why not design a virtual reality music instrument which is really matched to the peculiar skills that I have and that really allows me to express myself in real time? There are all sorts of possibilities. At the lowest level you could take the various axes of the space and map them to MIDI parameters, say pitch, volume, and timbre. To go beyond that, when you're dealing with 3D objects you have physical behavior like gravity, mass, collision detection, friction, rebound - all of those physical things are additional parameters that you can add in. For example, I could take a sphere, I could lift it up above my head, I could spin it at a certain rate and then over a period of time it would fall to the ground.

"If you think about all the different things going on in there and ways of mapping them to different MIDI parameters, there's a lot of things that you could do. You might end up, however, with a very unmusical sound, so you need to start putting constraints on it. Rather than having the pitch be mapped linearly, you'd constrain it to a scale. Tempo you could constrain. As you start to apply some constraints you come up with macros and templates of areas you want to work in. For example, by substituting a sphere for a cube I could move from horns to strings. The more constraints you add, the bolder strokes you're able to deal with in terms of performance. Think of a conductor of classical music - all the composition has been done (so the musicians are familiar with these pieces) and what he's dealing with, with his arms and his body language are things like tempo, expression and volume. But with VR we can go beyond that, because we can go back into the composition. I can jump around in pre-prepared MIDI sequences, I can substitute instruments at will or move between different instrumentations and introduce all sorts of random elements or artifial intelligence where things react in a pre-determined way to each other. There's an awful lot that can be done in that area, and my job as a composer is to identify the strengths and weaknesses of this system and to get creative with them and to learn to use this as a musical instrument and then go out and perform it to people."

 

MASS-MULTIMEDIA

How will the performance work?

"It's a kind of visualisation of how a human and a computer might interact creatively in the future. A vision of 20-30 years from now when you have a multi-media room in your house, which you can darken or soundproof at the flick of a switch. You have a big screen, a comfortable chair and you're connected by cable to the outside world. You might use that room for watching a movie, or you might use it for work. If you're at all creative in your work there's no reason why you shouldn't be as comfortable working as you are when watching a movie - so it's a kind of a vision of how that may work in the future.

"So in a way I'll be creating a model for that and putting it on stage so that people can see. I'll use a headmounted display - the audience will see a two-dimensional output of my point of view. There won't be any direct interaction with the audience in terms of pressing buttons or anything like that, but I want to keep it loose and flexible enough that the performances really come to life. It may sound like what I'm talking about is never gonna be within the reach of the average musician, but I'm doing it on the basis that in a few yearstime a lot of homes will have these facilities, just as nearly every home built from the 1930s onwards had a garage, because it was assumed that everybody had a car. So just in terms of your home entertainment system you'll have a facility to do most of what I'm talking about. It's going to be within people's reach - big businesses will make sure that it is, with or without me.

"The skills of manipulation of 3D objects are skills that everybody has. A lot of people didn't learn to play the piano or percussion or the guitar, but they're perfectly capable of pouring milk from a jug into a cup of coffee or taking flowers out of a vase. So it does come down more to musical imagination."

As it did with sequencing, but I suppose this is more direct, as you don't even need basic computing skills.

"Exactly - in fact, going back to my great aunt, VR is a much more intuitive interface for her than a querty and a mouse - she would never relate the cursor to what she was doing with her hand. But I put the VR helmet on her head and said, 'See that object over there? Go over and touch it.' She walks towards it, she reaches out her hand and she touches it. These skills are within the reach of a large number of people."

 

 

links

1984 - Thomas Dolby in Los Angeles, "The Flat Earth" US tour continues
1985 - Thomas Dolby with Ryuichi Sakamoto
1986 - Thomas Dolby, collaborations with Joni Mitchell, work on film scores
1988 - Thomas Dolby, Mike Kapitan, "Aliens Ate My Buick" and the Lost Toy People
1992 - Thomas Dolby, the making of "Astronauts and Heretics"